tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30043595.post9127634890394769055..comments2023-10-15T05:32:17.988-05:00Comments on The Deacon's Slant: What is Sin?plsdeaconhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18039800243898137584noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30043595.post-14029643981437129442008-06-03T08:58:00.000-05:002008-06-03T08:58:00.000-05:00I do not deny that suffering can be sanctifing, bu...I do not deny that suffering can be sanctifing, but as I read Jesus' words "Take up your cross," I don't read "be ready to suffer." I read "be ready to die."<BR/><BR/>I don't necessarily see this as a progressive/conservative issue. I think of it as a basic mis-understanding.<BR/><BR/>We often talk about our "crosses to bear" in minimalistic terms. "I'm losing my hair, but that's just my cross to bear" or "My coworkers are jerks, but that's just my cross to bear." We don't want to hear the call to die to self and die to sin so that we can be raised to new life. <BR/><BR/>I'll have more to say on what I find to be the American Heresy (of which this minimization of suffering or death is just a symptom) later today.<BR/><BR/>YBIC,<BR/>Phil Snyderplsdeaconhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18039800243898137584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30043595.post-81941453785980802012008-06-02T22:21:00.000-05:002008-06-02T22:21:00.000-05:00How did he not mean the cross to imply suffering? ...How did he not mean the cross to imply suffering? The numbers of early leaders of the Church who were martyred were legion. Indeed it is hardly possible to interpret the reference to the cross, symbol of torture let us remember, without recourse to the concept of suffering.<BR/><BR/>Let us also remember the words immediately after this quotation, which are "Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it." <BR/><BR/>Now, we aren't all called to be martyred, though there are people martyred even today. We are all called upon to suffer. <BR/><BR/>Perhaps the conservatives and progressives need to drop their stones and start learning from each other. :) Not unlike the Catholics and Protestants, each holding grimly to their own half of gospel truth while denying the other half. Faith and works, grace and suffering, reverence and justice.Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10385038621021373803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30043595.post-92131091572858020462008-06-02T13:28:00.000-05:002008-06-02T13:28:00.000-05:00The question is what is the goal? Is the goal the...The question is what is the goal? Is the goal the elimination of injustice, racism, and poverty or is the goal the renewal of all creation by the gift of New Life given through Jesus Christ?<BR/><BR/>One of the problems I see with the progressives is that they emphasize the first - the elimination of injustice in all its forms - without recourse to the second. <BR/><BR/>All too often we don't want to hear that, implicit in receiving God's grace, is the call to "die daily to sin." When Jesus said "pick up your cross" he did not mean be ready to endure hardship or suffering. Jesus calls us to die to self so we can be raise to new life. That transformation to new life is what enables us to work to eliminate injustice, poverty, or any other social sins.<BR/><BR/>YBIC,<BR/>Phil Snyderplsdeaconhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18039800243898137584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30043595.post-8335283357428485862008-06-02T12:24:00.000-05:002008-06-02T12:24:00.000-05:00Hey Phil:"Jesus didn't come to make us nice. He di...Hey Phil:<BR/><BR/>"Jesus didn't come to make us nice. He didn't come to eliminate poverty or racism or wars or to establish Justice."<BR/><BR/>The problem with saying that, although it is technically true, is that people tend to take Christ's forgiveness as carte blanche to be bad. People generally are all for grace, they just aren't all for the attendant response to grace. <BR/><BR/>If you take the Lord's forgiveness seriously, then you <B><I>will</I></B> work to reduce poverty, racism, wars and injustice. It is not necessary to diminish the <I>effects</I> of godliness just in order to acknowledge the source of godliness, which is not in ourselves. That's like liking the apples but not the apple cider. :)Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10385038621021373803noreply@blogger.com